Zen Conversation (Đối Cơ)

The monk said, “What is the Way?”
Master said, “The Way is not in the question; the question is not in the Way.”

Originally, neither the Mind nor the Way.
There is the Way; however, that is not no-mind.
The Mind and the Way originally are void and serene.
There is not a place to be found.”

The monk suddenly understood, then bowed and moved back.

Vốn không tâm không đạo
Có đạo chẳng không tâm
Tâm đạo vốn rỗng lặng
Chỗ nào lại đuổi tầm?

Vị Tăng bỗng nhiên nhận ra ý chỉ, lễ bái lui ra.

Monk asked, “If so, this learner’s got in.”
Master said, “You yourself must scratch to take your itch away. You yourself must eat to take your hunger away.”

Monk asked again, “What is the pure dharma body?”
Master said, “Getting in and out the cow urine, hiding in the horse dung.”

Monk asked, “So how could we realize that?”
Master said, “Have no impure thoughts; that is the dharma body. Listen to my poem here.
Anciently and now, there is neither purity nor impurity.
Purity and impurity are just plain names.
The dharma body is not restricted -- thus neither purity nor impurity.”

Monk asked again, “One day, the Prince Siddhartha entered a shrine of a god. The god appreared and prostrated before the Prince. What was that?”
Master said, “Closed fist, or open hand – just the same one hand. When you rub the eyes, you will see thousands of different things.”

Lại hỏi:
- Xưa Thái tử Tất-đạt-đa vào miếu thiên thần, tượng thần sụp lạy dưới chân việc ấy thế nào?
Thầy đáp:
Xòe nắm vẫn một bàn tay
Ấn mắt thấy ngàn sai khác.

Monk asked again, “The old sages said, ‘See that yellow flower garden; all them is prajna.’ What did that mean?”
Master said, “The cherry tree is not the bodhi tree. Why could Linh Van enter the Way [upon seeing the flowering]?”

Monk asked again, “How about the story ‘Upon hearing a peeble striking a bamboo tree, the monk suddenly lost all knowledge.’ What did that mean?”
Master said, “A fisherman lost the golden sewing machine.”

Monk asked again, “What is the dharma body?”
Master said, “Next to a pond, two entities were seen; under the moon, three persons showed delight.”

Monk asked again, “Dharma body and physical body – are they the same or different?”
Master said, “The sword has the name Long Tuyen. The gem has the name Ho Phach.”

Monk asked again, “What does the saying ‘Buddha within yourself’ mean?”
Master said, “If you don’t search for wine, you will find it’s hard to meet a vase breaker.”

Monk asked again, “How could I understand?”
Master said, “In a mansion house, sleeping in a night; on a long river, in the same ferry to reach other shore.”

Monk asked again, “The old sages said, ‘Being mind, being Buddha.”’ Why doesn’t Buddha appear now?”
Master said, “Prying oysters, you will find pearls though with difficulty. Slitting fish to search for gems, you only waste your time.”

Monk asked again, “The old sages said, ‘Could not use mind to know, could not use consciousness to understand.’ What did that mean?”
Master said, “The wooden man enters the ocean and sings a song of formlessness. The stone girl walks through clouds and plays a flute.”

Master said, “Though not seeing the horses, Khong Nhan recognized the one that could gallop fast to chase the wind. Though not watching the swords, Tiet Chuc told apart the one that could cut through a feather flying in the air.”

Monk asked again , “’When you see a form, recognize the mind.’ What did that mean?”
Master said, “While coming to a country of unclothed people, take off your loincloth. While learning in Ham Dan, don’t forget your motherland.”

Monk asked again, “The Patriarch’s intention and the Buddha’s teaching: are they the same or not?”
Master said, “Waves and water have different names. When a bud blooms, a flower appears.”

Monk asked, “Bodhi and suffering: are they the same or not?”
Master said, “Taste of salt is in water. Glue color is in paint color.”

Monk asked again, “What is the karma of birth and death?”
Master said, “The autumn dews scatter on reed flowers. The nightly snow sprinkles under the shining moon.”

Monk asked again, “So, how about sitting Zen and practicing concentration?”
Master said, “The king steps down from the chariot, and competes against frogs and toads.”

Monk asked again, “So, how about neither sitting Zen nor practicing concentration?”
Master said, “Go boating like Pham Lai, and enjoy rivers and lakes.”

Monk asked again, “The sutra says, ‘Emptiness is form; form is emptiness.’ What is that meaning?”
Master kept silent for a moment, then asked, “Do you understand?”
Monk said, “I don’t understand.”
Master said, “Do you have a bodily form?”
Monk said, “Yes, I have.”
Master said, “Why do you say that form is emptiness?”

Monk asked again, “Finally, how are they?”
Master said, “Originally, form is not emptiness. Originally, emptiness is not form.”
Monk bowed.

Master said, “Listen to my poem here.
Form is emptiness; emptiness is form.
All Buddhas of the three times say that for convenience.
Originally, emptiness is not form; originally, form is not emptiness.
Shining bright, the nature neither gains nor loses.”
Katsu!